[TROM1] Question / correction

Pru Joy 081 at live.com.au
Tue Aug 11 08:24:17 UTC 2009


OMG - Martin! - that was as succinct as a "bullet" - I so "got it" - thank 
you,

>In "engram recall" one continues to emplace a distance between Now and
> then and this tends to solidify the time track.
>
> "Before the beginning" - Well now - if there is no time - there is no
> beginning - how could there be a before the beginning?
>


PJ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Martin Foster" <msfoster at telkomsa.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:54 AM
To: "The Resolution of Mind list" <trom at lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Question /  correction

> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
> ************
> Dear David,
>
> I'm catching up on mail and apologise for late replying.
>
> Re your question "if there are no " clears" or "OT's" in TROM, then what
> is the point of doing it?"
>
> The point of doing TROM is discovered in doing TROM. The simplicity of
> TROM - becomes apparent by doing TROM. The red herrings and traps built
> into other "MIND-ologies" also become apparent.
>
> The CoS tends to regard Clear and OT as a status to be achieved.
>
> In the FreeZone you will find that many regard "clear" as a competence -
> not as a status. A competence to Solo-Audit.
>
> What Dennis achieved with TROM may seem - I reiterate "seem" to be an
> extension of Scientology - but in fact it is not.
>
> TROM has it's own basics which may appear to align with the Scientology
> factors and axioms but in fact many Scientology concepts such as
> "service facsimile", "engram recall", "Before the beginning" "Total
> Responsibility", Total Freedom" etc make it difficult for a
> Scientologist to get to grips with TROM.
>
> Somehow one needs to study TROM while at the same time re-examining
> previous data one unconditionally accepted.
>
> Service facsimile is a valid concept but not of any use in doing TROM.
>
> In "engram recall" one continues to emplace a distance between Now and
> then and this tends to solidify the time track.
>
> "Before the beginning" - Well now - if there is no time - there is no
> beginning - how could there be a before the beginning?
>
> Total anything - violates the basic that absolutes are approachable -
> never attainable.
>
> Regards,
>
> Martin
>
>
> David Pelly wrote:
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> After processing the data you posted below,
>>
>> I have this additional comment to say about Dennis' words:
>>
>> Yes, it cannot be said that what he says is not true.
>>
>> But:
>> He so cleverly articulated a truth at such a high level, with such
>> complexity, it is similar to giving a 4 yr old a 2000 piece jigsaw
>> puzzle to put together.
>>
>> He will not likely figure it out until he is in his teens.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dennis' words are full of very clever traps.
>>
>> I just read the article on Dennis in IVY mag, It is apparent he is a
>> well above average mind and more able than most.
>>
>> I even think I am pretty good, but he has me beat by far.
>>
>> I know how to play that game of what I call brain f@@king too, if I
>> want to humor myself, within my own area of expertise.
>>
>> I know well how to make something sound good, but not understandable
>> to the listener or reader.
>>
>> I know what the listener or reader knows and doesn't know.
>>
>> So I can play with his brain.
>>
>> I am pretty certain that is what Dennis did.
>>
>>
>> But on the other hand I do not mind a good mental challenge, and if
>> something like that is true, I will do what I can to figure it out.
>>
>> 30 yrs ago an old lady told me it is good to read things that you do
>> not understand and try to understand it.
>>
>>
>> So I am going to read the book over again.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> PS,
>>
>> On the other hand:
>>
>> I have to ask, if there are no " clears" or "OT's" in TROM, then what
>> is the point of doing it?
>>
>>
>> On 2-Aug-09, at 3:12 PM, Martin Foster wrote:
>>
>>> *************
>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom at lists.newciv.org
>>> ************
>>> Hi David - it's almost 9pm - 21:00hrs. What time is it where you are?
>>>
>>> Re Nirvana and Clear. I think there can be many interpretations. But
>>> just as a reminder the following quotes are relevant - don't you think?
>>>
>>> "However, never will you be entirely free of the necessity to run RI as
>>> an adjunct to the exercises until you’ve got to the very end of Level
>>> Five and achieved Nirvana."
>>>
>>> AND:
>>>
>>> "If this technology ever becomes lost to mankind it will only be because
>>> some faint hearts could not confront the horrors of Level Two, and so
>>> will change it all into something pleasant - and useless. Never miss it:
>>> Level Two is the only barrier that sits between mankind and the
>>> attaining of Nirvana. He cannot face Level Two, and so he goes to a
>>> separate therapist to help him through it - never realizing that by so
>>> doing he has negated his own responsibility in the matter, and so doomed
>>> himself to failure."
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> David Pelly wrote:
>>>> *************
>>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom at lists.newciv.org
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>> Hi Martin,
>>>>
>>>> I acknowledge and thank you for your reply.
>>>>
>>>> SEE BELOW;
>>>> On 2-Aug-09, at 2:17 PM, Martin Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> *************
>>>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom at lists.newciv.org
>>>>> ************
>>>>> Dear David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just reading TROM is a freeing action and from the para or two below
>>>>> that you wrote it seems you are are having change. Why not read it
>>>>> through again and do lots of RI. And - here comes an evaluation. -
>>>>> Don't forget to give yourself a very well done on having read through
>>>>> TROM and the changes you have brought about for yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK.
>>>>
>>>>> All the abuse or invalidations one has suffered throughout many
>>>>> lifetimes are centred on convincing one that one cannot create.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I GOT THAT.
>>>>
>>>>> Doing RI rehabilitates and re-asserts that one can create.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do lots of RI and when you feel up to it - start "time-breaking"
>>>>> interspersed with RI.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no status of Beingness in TROM, such as on the CoS bridge.
>>>>> There are no TROM clears or OT's.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WELL IF NOT CLEARS, DENNIS SAYS ONE WILL REACH NIRVANA.
>>>>
>>>> THAT IS JUST A DIFFERENT WAY OF SAYING THE SAME THING, FROM THE WAY I
>>>> SEE IT.
>>>>
>>>> NOT?
>>>>
>>>> BY THE WAY, WHAT TIME IS IT IN SA NOW?
>>>>
>>>>> Wishing you the very best David - You are and always will be your own
>>>>> best auditor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Pelly wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> snipped:
>>>>>> Over the last month or so, I think I have done most of level two, and
>>>>>> I think; level three of TROM, just by being aware of releasing and
>>>>>> looking at incidents and if an incident or rather a pattern or
>>>>>> condition of anxiety, and related emotional disorders; "charge',
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be restimulated, I would become aware of it and consciously release
>>>>>> it, and it would release in great measure. This would occur while I
>>>>>> was carrying on with my daily activities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Primarily while going for walks. I would connect with charge and it
>>>>>> would release like volcanoes. This went on daily, for over a week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This went on with such intensity that I had no time for so called
>>>>>> "time breaking", nor were there always any incidents in view, just a
>>>>>> lot of charge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would just be conscious of what was going on and be aware of
>>>>>> present
>>>>>> time and my environment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was surprised that all this charge was not released by auditing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is still some charge left, but it does not usually come up,
>>>>>> except when I am in an restimulative environment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this charge build up, over the years, is what caused stomach
>>>>>> ulcers and an abdominal hernia, around five or six years ago and
>>>>>> continue to this day. These are very painful and problematic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was quite beneficial. My ulcers and hernia are now not as
>>>>>> reactive, meaning do not flare up as much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That part, for now at least, feels better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> snipped
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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