[TROM1] Question / correction

Martin Foster msfoster at telkomsa.net
Mon Aug 10 15:54:02 UTC 2009


Dear David,

I'm catching up on mail and apologise for late replying.

Re your question "if there are no " clears" or "OT's" in TROM, then what 
is the point of doing it?"

The point of doing TROM is discovered in doing TROM. The simplicity of 
TROM - becomes apparent by doing TROM. The red herrings and traps built 
into other "MIND-ologies" also become apparent.

The CoS tends to regard Clear and OT as a status to be achieved.

In the FreeZone you will find that many regard "clear" as a competence - 
not as a status. A competence to Solo-Audit.

What Dennis achieved with TROM may seem - I reiterate "seem" to be an 
extension of Scientology - but in fact it is not.

TROM has it's own basics which may appear to align with the Scientology 
factors and axioms but in fact many Scientology concepts such as 
"service facsimile", "engram recall", "Before the beginning" "Total 
Responsibility", Total Freedom" etc make it difficult for a 
Scientologist to get to grips with TROM.

Somehow one needs to study TROM while at the same time re-examining 
previous data one unconditionally accepted.

Service facsimile is a valid concept but not of any use in doing TROM.

In "engram recall" one continues to emplace a distance between Now and 
then and this tends to solidify the time track.

"Before the beginning" - Well now - if there is no time - there is no 
beginning - how could there be a before the beginning?

Total anything - violates the basic that absolutes are approachable - 
never attainable.

Regards,

Martin


David Pelly wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> After processing the data you posted below,
>
> I have this additional comment to say about Dennis' words:
>
> Yes, it cannot be said that what he says is not true.
>
> But:
> He so cleverly articulated a truth at such a high level, with such 
> complexity, it is similar to giving a 4 yr old a 2000 piece jigsaw 
> puzzle to put together.
>
> He will not likely figure it out until he is in his teens.
>
>
>
> Dennis' words are full of very clever traps.
>
> I just read the article on Dennis in IVY mag, It is apparent he is a 
> well above average mind and more able than most.
>
> I even think I am pretty good, but he has me beat by far.
>
> I know how to play that game of what I call brain f@@king too, if I 
> want to humor myself, within my own area of expertise.
>
> I know well how to make something sound good, but not understandable 
> to the listener or reader.
>
> I know what the listener or reader knows and doesn't know.
>
> So I can play with his brain.
>
> I am pretty certain that is what Dennis did.
>
>
> But on the other hand I do not mind a good mental challenge, and if 
> something like that is true, I will do what I can to figure it out.
>
> 30 yrs ago an old lady told me it is good to read things that you do 
> not understand and try to understand it.
>
>
> So I am going to read the book over again.
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> PS,
>
> On the other hand:
>
> I have to ask, if there are no " clears" or "OT's" in TROM, then what 
> is the point of doing it?
>
>
> On 2-Aug-09, at 3:12 PM, Martin Foster wrote:
>
>> *************
>> The following message is relayed to you by trom at lists.newciv.org
>> ************
>> Hi David - it's almost 9pm - 21:00hrs. What time is it where you are?
>>
>> Re Nirvana and Clear. I think there can be many interpretations. But
>> just as a reminder the following quotes are relevant - don't you think?
>>
>> "However, never will you be entirely free of the necessity to run RI as
>> an adjunct to the exercises until you’ve got to the very end of Level
>> Five and achieved Nirvana."
>>
>> AND:
>>
>> "If this technology ever becomes lost to mankind it will only be because
>> some faint hearts could not confront the horrors of Level Two, and so
>> will change it all into something pleasant - and useless. Never miss it:
>> Level Two is the only barrier that sits between mankind and the
>> attaining of Nirvana. He cannot face Level Two, and so he goes to a
>> separate therapist to help him through it - never realizing that by so
>> doing he has negated his own responsibility in the matter, and so doomed
>> himself to failure."
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> David Pelly wrote:
>>> *************
>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom at lists.newciv.org
>>> ************
>>>
>>> Hi Martin,
>>>
>>> I acknowledge and thank you for your reply.
>>>
>>> SEE BELOW;
>>> On 2-Aug-09, at 2:17 PM, Martin Foster wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> *************
>>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom at lists.newciv.org
>>>> ************
>>>> Dear David,
>>>>
>>>> Just reading TROM is a freeing action and from the para or two below
>>>> that you wrote it seems you are are having change. Why not read it
>>>> through again and do lots of RI. And - here comes an evaluation. -
>>>> Don't forget to give yourself a very well done on having read through
>>>> TROM and the changes you have brought about for yourself.
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK.
>>>
>>>> All the abuse or invalidations one has suffered throughout many
>>>> lifetimes are centred on convincing one that one cannot create.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I GOT THAT.
>>>
>>>> Doing RI rehabilitates and re-asserts that one can create.
>>>>
>>>> Do lots of RI and when you feel up to it - start "time-breaking"
>>>> interspersed with RI.
>>>>
>>>> There is no status of Beingness in TROM, such as on the CoS bridge.
>>>> There are no TROM clears or OT's.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WELL IF NOT CLEARS, DENNIS SAYS ONE WILL REACH NIRVANA.
>>>
>>> THAT IS JUST A DIFFERENT WAY OF SAYING THE SAME THING, FROM THE WAY I
>>> SEE IT.
>>>
>>> NOT?
>>>
>>> BY THE WAY, WHAT TIME IS IT IN SA NOW?
>>>
>>>> Wishing you the very best David - You are and always will be your own
>>>> best auditor.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Pelly wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> snipped:
>>>>> Over the last month or so, I think I have done most of level two, and
>>>>> I think; level three of TROM, just by being aware of releasing and
>>>>> looking at incidents and if an incident or rather a pattern or
>>>>> condition of anxiety, and related emotional disorders; "charge', 
>>>>> would
>>>>> be restimulated, I would become aware of it and consciously release
>>>>> it, and it would release in great measure. This would occur while I
>>>>> was carrying on with my daily activities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Primarily while going for walks. I would connect with charge and it
>>>>> would release like volcanoes. This went on daily, for over a week.
>>>>>
>>>>> This went on with such intensity that I had no time for so called
>>>>> "time breaking", nor were there always any incidents in view, just a
>>>>> lot of charge.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would just be conscious of what was going on and be aware of 
>>>>> present
>>>>> time and my environment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was surprised that all this charge was not released by auditing.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is still some charge left, but it does not usually come up,
>>>>> except when I am in an restimulative environment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this charge build up, over the years, is what caused stomach
>>>>> ulcers and an abdominal hernia, around five or six years ago and
>>>>> continue to this day. These are very painful and problematic.
>>>>>
>>>>> This was quite beneficial. My ulcers and hernia are now not as
>>>>> reactive, meaning do not flare up as much.
>>>>>
>>>>> That part, for now at least, feels better.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> snipped
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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