[TROM1] Animal Postulates

Pru Joy 081 at live.com.au
Mon Aug 10 03:25:50 UTC 2009


Well - having just had some turkey & tomato soup for lunch my brain starting 
whirring again & came up with this:

That if the cat has adopted the PD of the owner, re learning to exhibit 
certain behavior to receive food, then it has given up it's own SD of "to 
not be known" & adopted that of the owner - thus it has been overwhelmed. 
But there are a couple of other factors here - one that domesticated cats 
have obviously been originally "overwhelmed" by man a very long time ago and 
the other that the "overwhelm" was not unpleasant but rather "pleasant" or a 
reward.

Anyway, the cat does then have a SD of "must be known" & PD of "must know".

PJ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Pru Joy" <081 at live.com.au>
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:01 AM
To: "The Resolution of Mind  list" <trom at lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Animal Postulates

> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
> ************
> Well, those very knowledgeable TROM people are out there - maybe they are
> asleep?
>
> OR maybe they are challenging us to find the solution ourselves - which,
> given another 24 hours we probably will do.
>
> PJ
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "David Pelly" <dpelly at execulink.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:27 AM
> To: "The Resolution of Mind  list" <trom at lists.newciv.org>
> Subject: [TROM1] Animal Postulates
>
>> *************
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
>> ************
>>
>>
>> On 9-Aug-09, at 8:02 PM, Pru Joy wrote:
>>
>>> *************
>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
>>> ************
>>> Oh dear & ha ha!  Now my brain is totally not up to it so I have to
>>> agree
>>> with you David - we need some more knowledgeable assistance as to what
>>> the
>>> cat's PD is -
>>
>> Where is  good experienced help when we  need it?
>>
>>
>>>  and yes thanks for pointing out that the cat having "learnt"
>>> is then at "effect" of the owner's PD - I just tried to read thru the
>>> Postulate Failure Cycle Chart but that's where my brain battery ran
>>> right
>>> out!
>>>
>>> PJ
>>
>> I know what you mean, mine does too!.
>>
>> I do not buy Dennis' words that anyone can do this.  :  )
>>
>>
>> David
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "David Pelly" <dpelly at execulink.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:35 AM
>>> To: "The Resolution of Mind  list" <trom at lists.newciv.org>
>>> Subject: [TROM1] Animal Postulates
>>>
>>>> *************
>>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
>>>> ************
>>>> Hi Pru,
>>>>
>>>> On 9-Aug-09, at 6:26 PM, Pru Joy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *************
>>>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
>>>>> ************
>>>>> Thank you for posing this question David - it is giving my brain a
>>>>> bit
>>>>> of a
>>>>> workout (which it needs!)
>>>>
>>>> Yes, without good mental workouts I go nuts.
>>>>
>>>>  The TROM:   RI  "Create something"  -  is a special type of work out.
>>>>  Right?
>>>>>
>>>>> So firstly both examples, the cat & the baby, that Dennis gives are
>>>>> "pro
>>>>> survival" the only difference being for the cat it is a "learnt"
>>>>> response &
>>>>> for the "baby" it is pure instinct.
>>>>
>>>> So  who "learnt " ....  that cat?   In other words: who taught the
>>>> cat>
>>>>
>>>> Is not the cat operating on the trainer's postulate, which  is the
>>>> trainer's  " PD  postulate"  to/ for  the cat?
>>>>
>>>> Would that be called:  "to know"?
>>>>
>>>> The cat  that was trained to " want a saucer of milk"  and " a warm
>>>> home" ,  is the effect of the trainer?
>>>>
>>>> Is this not correct?
>>>>>
>>>>> A "wild" animal on the other hand has no "learnt" response to
>>>>> behaving
>>>>> in a
>>>>> certain way to receive food from a human, so it is also pure instinct
>>>>> that,
>>>>> in fact, it may actually see the potential of the human being it's
>>>>> food - ha
>>>>> ha! - and have a SD postulate of eating you!  (And I guess his PD
>>>>> would be
>>>>> that you "be his food".)
>>>>
>>>> I think so.
>>>>>
>>>>> The cat has learnt
>>>>
>>>> Is not his  learning an effect of being taught by his trainer?
>>>>
>>>>> how to behave to receive food & thus it does have a SD
>>>>
>>>> The PD of the trainer has become the SD  for the cat.  Right?  or
>>>> wrong?
>>>>>  to
>>>>> make this known with a PD of you knowing it (his desire to eat).
>>>>
>>>> I think this is correct?
>>>>> The baby's instincts tell him he better yell loud if he wants to
>>>>> receive
>>>>> attention & so his SD & PD is the same as the cats - so yes, Dennis
>>>>> was
>>>>> correct as per my understanding of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe Dennis's choice of "stray" cat throws the example "out" a bit -
>>>>> as it
>>>>> is quite likely that a stray cat
>>>>
>>>> I understood it as an already trained  stray cat  who knew how, ( was
>>>> trained)  to want a saucer of milk  and saw a human and sent the human
>>>> his  trained ( adopted? effect)  postulate.
>>>>
>>>>> has never learnt how to "behave" around
>>>>> humans to receive food & in fact, may actually see them as "anti
>>>>> survival" &
>>>>> run like the dickens.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found this quote a great assistance in sorting this little puzzle
>>>>> out:
>>>>> "A game, then, can be regarded as a conflict of postulates wherein a
>>>>> being
>>>>> endeavors to convince his opponent of his own ( PD ) postulate, while
>>>>> resisting the ( PD ) postulate arrayed against him. All games,
>>>>> despite
>>>>> their
>>>>> seeming complexity, can be reduced to this basic simplicity and thus
>>>>> understood."
>>>>
>>>> I  would think that  the
>>>> complete cycle  in the case of an untamed cat  would be:
>>>>
>>>> SD
>>>> PD
>>>>
>>>> 1. Must be known.                          must know
>>>>
>>>> Trainer's SD;  I am the boss, or I am your master.
>>>>
>>>> Trainer's postulate  PD  for cat,  this is how I want you to behave
>>>> for
>>>> me, you are my cat, I want you to  be nice and eat this milk  and stay
>>>> in my house and be my pet.
>>>>
>>>> or
>>>> Trainer to cat:  you :   "must know"  how to eat this milk., be nice,
>>>> live in my house, be my pet so I can pet you and play with you, so you
>>>> can be a sink ( a  key out ) for my insecurities and neurotic
>>>> problems.
>>>>  :)
>>>>
>>>> 2. Must not be known.                   must not know
>>>>
>>>> Cat is at  first ( SD ) not cooperative, which would be " I must not
>>>> know"  how to eat your milk, and be your pet.  ( I do not want to eat
>>>> your milk, live in your house, and be your pet.  Cat does not want to
>>>> be effect of master human.)
>>>>
>>>> Cat's PD  is;  you must not tell me how to behave or what to do for
>>>> you.   I will  rebel.  Or I will run away.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Must know.                                  must be known
>>>>
>>>> Trainer says, I am boss  SD    PD  yes you are my cat and you must eat
>>>> this milk and be a good cat, and live in my house and be my pet.
>>>> Trainer wants  cat to know that it must be known that you are you are
>>>> my cat and that you must eat my milk.  etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Must not know.                      must not be known
>>>>
>>>> Cat's innate untamed independent SD  postulate is now broken  (must
>>>> not
>>>> be known)  that I am actually an independent wild cat, but now I am
>>>> operating on your postulate which is to be a good cat and eat your
>>>> milk, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I cannot figure out what the cat's PD  is.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to hear from some TROMMERS  who have got this thing
>>>> figured out.
>>>>
>>>> Have I got this right as far as I went?  Then if  not, what is the
>>>> correct and complete process?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PJ
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>
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