[TROM1] Animal Postulates

Pru Joy 081 at live.com.au
Mon Aug 10 01:01:39 UTC 2009


Well, those very knowledgeable TROM people are out there - maybe they are 
asleep?

OR maybe they are challenging us to find the solution ourselves - which, 
given another 24 hours we probably will do.

PJ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "David Pelly" <dpelly at execulink.com>
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:27 AM
To: "The Resolution of Mind  list" <trom at lists.newciv.org>
Subject: [TROM1] Animal Postulates

> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
> ************
>
>
> On 9-Aug-09, at 8:02 PM, Pru Joy wrote:
>
>> *************
>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
>> ************
>> Oh dear & ha ha!  Now my brain is totally not up to it so I have to
>> agree
>> with you David - we need some more knowledgeable assistance as to what
>> the
>> cat's PD is -
>
> Where is  good experienced help when we  need it?
>
>
>>  and yes thanks for pointing out that the cat having "learnt"
>> is then at "effect" of the owner's PD - I just tried to read thru the
>> Postulate Failure Cycle Chart but that's where my brain battery ran
>> right
>> out!
>>
>> PJ
>
> I know what you mean, mine does too!.
>
> I do not buy Dennis' words that anyone can do this.  :  )
>
>
> David
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "David Pelly" <dpelly at execulink.com>
>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:35 AM
>> To: "The Resolution of Mind  list" <trom at lists.newciv.org>
>> Subject: [TROM1] Animal Postulates
>>
>>> *************
>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
>>> ************
>>> Hi Pru,
>>>
>>> On 9-Aug-09, at 6:26 PM, Pru Joy wrote:
>>>
>>>> *************
>>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
>>>> ************
>>>> Thank you for posing this question David - it is giving my brain a
>>>> bit
>>>> of a
>>>> workout (which it needs!)
>>>
>>> Yes, without good mental workouts I go nuts.
>>>
>>>  The TROM:   RI  "Create something"  -  is a special type of work out.
>>>  Right?
>>>>
>>>> So firstly both examples, the cat & the baby, that Dennis gives are
>>>> "pro
>>>> survival" the only difference being for the cat it is a "learnt"
>>>> response &
>>>> for the "baby" it is pure instinct.
>>>
>>> So  who "learnt " ....  that cat?   In other words: who taught the
>>> cat>
>>>
>>> Is not the cat operating on the trainer's postulate, which  is the
>>> trainer's  " PD  postulate"  to/ for  the cat?
>>>
>>> Would that be called:  "to know"?
>>>
>>> The cat  that was trained to " want a saucer of milk"  and " a warm
>>> home" ,  is the effect of the trainer?
>>>
>>> Is this not correct?
>>>>
>>>> A "wild" animal on the other hand has no "learnt" response to
>>>> behaving
>>>> in a
>>>> certain way to receive food from a human, so it is also pure instinct
>>>> that,
>>>> in fact, it may actually see the potential of the human being it's
>>>> food - ha
>>>> ha! - and have a SD postulate of eating you!  (And I guess his PD
>>>> would be
>>>> that you "be his food".)
>>>
>>> I think so.
>>>>
>>>> The cat has learnt
>>>
>>> Is not his  learning an effect of being taught by his trainer?
>>>
>>>> how to behave to receive food & thus it does have a SD
>>>
>>> The PD of the trainer has become the SD  for the cat.  Right?  or
>>> wrong?
>>>>  to
>>>> make this known with a PD of you knowing it (his desire to eat).
>>>
>>> I think this is correct?
>>>> The baby's instincts tell him he better yell loud if he wants to
>>>> receive
>>>> attention & so his SD & PD is the same as the cats - so yes, Dennis
>>>> was
>>>> correct as per my understanding of it.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe Dennis's choice of "stray" cat throws the example "out" a bit -
>>>> as it
>>>> is quite likely that a stray cat
>>>
>>> I understood it as an already trained  stray cat  who knew how, ( was
>>> trained)  to want a saucer of milk  and saw a human and sent the human
>>> his  trained ( adopted? effect)  postulate.
>>>
>>>> has never learnt how to "behave" around
>>>> humans to receive food & in fact, may actually see them as "anti
>>>> survival" &
>>>> run like the dickens.
>>>>
>>>> I found this quote a great assistance in sorting this little puzzle
>>>> out:
>>>> "A game, then, can be regarded as a conflict of postulates wherein a
>>>> being
>>>> endeavors to convince his opponent of his own ( PD ) postulate, while
>>>> resisting the ( PD ) postulate arrayed against him. All games,
>>>> despite
>>>> their
>>>> seeming complexity, can be reduced to this basic simplicity and thus
>>>> understood."
>>>
>>> I  would think that  the
>>> complete cycle  in the case of an untamed cat  would be:
>>>
>>> SD
>>> PD
>>>
>>> 1. Must be known.                          must know
>>>
>>> Trainer's SD;  I am the boss, or I am your master.
>>>
>>> Trainer's postulate  PD  for cat,  this is how I want you to behave
>>> for
>>> me, you are my cat, I want you to  be nice and eat this milk  and stay
>>> in my house and be my pet.
>>>
>>> or
>>> Trainer to cat:  you :   "must know"  how to eat this milk., be nice,
>>> live in my house, be my pet so I can pet you and play with you, so you
>>> can be a sink ( a  key out ) for my insecurities and neurotic
>>> problems.
>>>  :)
>>>
>>> 2. Must not be known.                   must not know
>>>
>>> Cat is at  first ( SD ) not cooperative, which would be " I must not
>>> know"  how to eat your milk, and be your pet.  ( I do not want to eat
>>> your milk, live in your house, and be your pet.  Cat does not want to
>>> be effect of master human.)
>>>
>>> Cat's PD  is;  you must not tell me how to behave or what to do for
>>> you.   I will  rebel.  Or I will run away.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. Must know.                                  must be known
>>>
>>> Trainer says, I am boss  SD    PD  yes you are my cat and you must eat
>>> this milk and be a good cat, and live in my house and be my pet.
>>> Trainer wants  cat to know that it must be known that you are you are
>>> my cat and that you must eat my milk.  etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 4. Must not know.                      must not be known
>>>
>>> Cat's innate untamed independent SD  postulate is now broken  (must
>>> not
>>> be known)  that I am actually an independent wild cat, but now I am
>>> operating on your postulate which is to be a good cat and eat your
>>> milk, etc.
>>>
>>> I cannot figure out what the cat's PD  is.
>>>
>>> I would like to hear from some TROMMERS  who have got this thing
>>> figured out.
>>>
>>> Have I got this right as far as I went?  Then if  not, what is the
>>> correct and complete process?
>>>
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> PJ
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>
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