[TROM1] convincing opponent that effect should be known

Theta Quest metaperl.fz101 at gmail.com
Tue Jan 15 16:04:42 UTC 2008


Thank you. I missed an important word in the discussion -
"endeavouring" --- it's not a game of seeing whether the pencil is
there or not. It's a game of me postulating must not know and the girl
is postulating must be known.

Of course, in real life, I would be the one dropping the pencil and
the opponent would be ignoring me :)

And  even with my example, someone could play the must not know game
with me. When I say "hey, look at that white dog" ... my opponent
could say "oh my god! someone's breaking into that house!" and run off
instead of acknowledging the existence of the dog.

And this could lead to personal trauma on my part - no one ever
listens to me! everything else is so much more important! I dont have
any say-so in the world!



On Jan 15, 2008 10:48 AM, McLaughlin Pete H Contr AFRL/RZOI
<Pete.McLaughlin.ctr at edwards.af.mil> wrote:
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
> ************
> Terrance
>   Easy
>   You are in a library and a girl nearby drops a pencil and waits.  You
> notice the pencil dropped but do nothing about it.
>   She wants you to know her and you are not interested.
>
> Pete
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trom-bounces at lists.newciv.org
> [mailto:trom-bounces at lists.newciv.org] On Behalf Of Theta Quest
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:38 AM
> To: The Resolution of Mind list
> Subject: [TROM1] convincing opponent that effect should be known
>
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom at lists.newciv.org
> ************
> On p. 7 of the pdf we read
>
> <QUOTE>
> Collecting and numbering our four basic SD postulates we get:
>
> 1. Must be known.   2. Must not be known.
> 3. Must know.         4. Must not know.
>
> The basic games are:
>
>     (must-be-known must-not-know)
>     (must-not-be-known must-know)
>
> These four numbers we shall call the legs of the basic game. The
> oppositions are shown by the arrows.
> In that it is not possible to play a game with an effect until it has
> been brought into existence, all games with an effect start at (1);
> due to progressive postulate failure the being progresses round the
> legs of the basic game in the following manner:
>
> The being at (1) is in opposition to (4), whom he is endeavoring to
> convince that the effect should be known;
> </QUOTE>
>
> So my question is: can you give a practical example of where party A
> is trying to convince party B that an effect must be known and party B
> is trying for must not know?
>
> This doesnt seem possible. If a white dog comes into view and I tell
> someone look there's a white dog, why would anyone do anything but
> agree with me?
>
> Could someone please give a practical example of the conflict the
> author is describing here - "The being at (1) is in opposition to (4),
> whom he is endeavoring to convince that the effect should be known;"
>
> I'd appreciate it,
> Terrence
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