[TROM1] Replay B15

Antony Phillips ivy at post8.tele.dk
Fri Nov 25 17:52:36 UTC 2005

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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 01:52:00 +0200
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:00:53 +0100
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To: trom-l at newciv.org
From: Antony Phillips <ivy at post8.tele.dk>
Subject: TROM Replay B15

Subject:               TROM Replay B15
          Date:               Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:24:20 +0100
         From:               Antony Phillips <ivy at post8.tele.dk>
Organization:               International Viewpoints
            To:               trom-l at newciv.org

Here's the next replay.

Note for newcomers,
Judith Anderson  (in Australia) Judith Methven  (in England)
(of course queeries with regard to the running of TROM are best placed
on the list, so others have an oppurtunity of adding their expereince.)

Msg  : 132 of 289                          Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
 From : "Dustin W. Carr"                    236/174.10      Mon 26 Jun 95 07:53
To   : trom-l <trom-l at netcom.com>                          Mon 26 Jun 95 19:55
Subj : Re: Completion of Level 2
Apparently-to: ant at jacome.ping.dk
From: "Dustin W. Carr" <dcarr at newton.ruph.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Completion of Level 2

On Sun, 25 Jun 1995 Ciric at aol.com wrote:

 > I just completed Level 2.  It took me 14 hours of actual Level 2 work,
 > with almost as much RI (10.5 hours).
 > I find it very interesting that the TROM materials are virtually self-
 > regulating.  At one point some time ago I thought that Level 2 was
 > complete, so I went into Level 3.  I found it very difficult, though, and
 > dropped back to Level 2.  Now, however, Level 3 is quite natural.  In
 > fact, I began doing Level 3 almost automatically near the end of
 > Level 2.

I concur with this from my own experience.  In fact, as I was going
through the levels, I never looked ahead at the next one, but I always
seemingly stepped right into it.  Level 3 flows readily into level 4, and
the same is true for 4 to 5.  At the end of every level I always found
myself doing the next level.

 > Timebreaking is really an incredible ability!  It's fascinating to see a
 > past incident hanging there in PT in front of you  Quite extraordinary,
 > unlike anything I've experienced before.

I am glad you are enjoying it.  It was never that big of a deal for me,
but then again, I took inordinate amounts of psychadelics in my past :)

One other piece of advice for someone on this path, which I have said
before.  I strongly suggest the book *Seth Speaks* by Jane Roberts.  It
offers a different view of things.  It can help to alleviate alot of
tension between a being and his mind.  I found that after leaving
scientology, (after a rather short time) I was very confrontational with
my mind, always thinking that it was filled with bad things and scary
monsters that could really hurt me.  After reading this book, I no longer
have such a tendency to play that game, and it has made my processing
many times more effective.

 > Bill

--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303

Msg  : 134 of 289                          Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
 From : ASC Missions Group                  236/174.10      Mon 26 Jun 95 04:20
To   : trom-l at netcom.com                                   Mon 26 Jun 95 19:55
Subj : Re: Completion of Level 2
Apparently-to: ant at jacome.ping.dk
From: ASC Missions Group <speaker at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Completion of Level 2


For those why find _Seth Speaks_ a little dry, or who just want to round
out the info, I suggest _The Nature of Personal Reality_, also a Seth
bookby the same author, Jane Roberts.

There are a lot of similarities between Seths's view and Acceptance.
Much more than between Acceptance and Scn/Dn.


Speaker for Acceptance   <speaker at netcom.com>   Acceptance Services Center
Acceptance is appreciation without significance.      |     (415) 964-3436
Appreciation is willingness to experience as-is.    --8--    PO Box 390696
Significance is interpretation, or added-on meaning.  |    Mtn Vw CA 94039
                    Web Home Page at  http://www.asc.org

--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303

Msg  : 138 of 289                          Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
 From : "Joachim H. Steingrubner PhD"       236/174.10      Tue 27 Jun 95 12:09
To   : trom-l at netcom.com                                   Wed 28 Jun 95 07:18
Subj : TROM and Nirvana
Apparently-to: ant at jacome.ping.dk
From: "Joachim H. Steingrubner PhD" <jhs at newciv.org>
Subject: TROM and Nirvana

Dennis mentions several times that he thinks TROM would lead to

Since inception of this list, I wanted to take exceptions to this
claim but never got around to do it.

Being a member of a Buddhist community (Sangha) since 1976 and
having studied Sanskrit and Pali both at University and in private,
I have had considerable exposure to the concept of 'nirvana'.

A good picture of "nirvana" (given by the Buddho, 'the Awakened',
himself) is the following:

Consider a burning haystack.

Once it has caught fire, it will burn as long as there is hay left.

When there is no hay left, the fire will disappear.

Where did the fire go?

Did it disappear forever and there will be never any fire anymore?

Or did it just go away and will come back once the _conditions_ for
a fire are somewhere in the world again?

If it went away, which direction did it go? Did it leave to the west,
or the east, to the sky, etc. etc. ?

What state is the fire in once the haystack is burnt up and before
it lights up again at another haystack?

I don't want to go into more details because I think this basic picture
shows enough of the 'nirvana' concept (which is the circumstance of the
permanent disappearance of the fire).

TROM resolves the time track in the first levels and aims to resolve
conflicting goals in the last.

According to Buddhism it is neither feasible, practical nor necessary
to burn _all_ the hay. (I can be more explicit on this, if requested).

Let's say TROM would be done until there is no hay left.  Would that
result in nirvana?

Perhaps "temporarily".  At the next combination of dry hay and a match,
however, the fire will be burning again.

In sciento lingo, "the thetan recreates its bank".

In other words, the achievement of 'nirvana' requires to eliminate
the _conditions_ under which a fire can arise, not just burning existing

For this reason, the main goal in Buddhist endeavors is (or should
be IMHO) the study of the why goals are created in the first place.
This, however, takes place in a different domain than TROM operates in.

As much as it is desirable and necessary to 'reduce the hay', it is
not the last step on the way to 'nirvana'.

This is not even addressing the question if a being really _wants_ to
achieve 'nirvana' anyway, by the way.

IMHO, TROM could be major breakthrough for mankind as a whole (if it
would be distributed and applied on a major scale).  This is why I
promote TROM.

I personally think that Flemming's Transformational
Processing is by far the best and most easily applicable instrument
to achieve spiritual liberation currenly available.

TROM fills a vital gap, though, in the moment.

Therefore I'm deeply grateful to Dennis Stephens for this contribution to


**   Joachim H. Steingrubner, PhD  TransMillennium, Inc.      **
**    E-mail: jhs at newciv.org     CompuServe: 71762,1757       **
**   The New Civilization Network: A Community in Cyberspace  **
** Web: http://www.newciv.org/   Mailbot: listserv at newciv.org **

--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303

Msg  : 144 of 289                          Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
 From : "Paul Houle"                        236/174.10      Wed 28 Jun 95 11:40
To   : trom-l at netcom.com                                   Thu 29 Jun 95 05:00
Subj : Modalities in TROM
Apparently-to: ant at jacome.ping.dk
From: "Paul Houle" <ph18 at crux2.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Modalities in TROM

       At one point in level 3 I found that all of a sudden I started hearing
a lot when I was doing RI.  I'd create something like a house and here
a "whoosh" as things moved and some impact sounds as things came together.
Sounds also became very prominant in remembering past scenes as well.

--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303

Msg  : 146 of 289                          Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
 From : Ciric at aol.com                       236/174.10      Wed 28 Jun 95 22:07
To   : trom-l at netcom.com                                   Thu 29 Jun 95 20:23
Subj : Re: Level 2/3
Apparently-to: ant at jacome.ping.dk
From: Ciric at aol.com
Subject: Re: Level 2/3


I am currently doing Level 3 and I had a similar discovery to yours.  I also
touch objects to get their texture, although I use direct theta perceptics
rather than a concept of a hand.  I have also found other perceptics to be
useful, such as sensing the emotion particles in the scene, the attitudes
of others, etc.

Bill Maier

--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
        Ant                                Antony A Phillips
        ivy at post8.tele.dk
                                          tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
                                          Box 78
                                          DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
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